MM: You have more than your hands full just bringing your whole direct group into the system. Anything else on your wish list?

BG: Yes. Oh, a few other things that we are looking at including in the DAM workflow is being able to send someone or a vendor a collection of images, and them being be able to download them in bulk versus one at a time. Our vendors are getting 8 or 9 images at a time to retouch. It’d be nice if they didn’t have to download them file-by-file. Even though they have the high-speed file transfer with Aspera to make it fast, it would be nice to be able to download that folder in bulk. That’s something that we’re looking at developing now.

MM: We have just begun seeing that function in DAMs, staging and provisioning particular assets with its metadata and workflow information into a hot folder. At which point in time, when the vendor logs on, they see the stuff in their hot folder.

It looks like it’s a scripting function on the DAM side. But it uses a zipping or Stuff-it application, where it takes those high-resolution files and compresses them all into one nice package. That also seems to make it a little less prone to getting corrupted in the file transfer process.

BG: Not being the most technically savvy about all that, I don’t know if we need to do that, zip them up and put them into some “hot” folder. We create the folder in the DAM and then e-mail the link to the suppliers.

MM: It’s the same idea, but the point is that by putting all these assets in a folder and zipping it into a package, you’ve reduced the size of the package considerably, and you’ve also done essentially the bulk transfer in terms of being able to move 5 or 6 or 10 really large files economically in one transaction or one interaction.

BG: I wouldn’t even think about that kind of integrated technology. I know that Industrial Color is fantastic. I think they would probably already be looking at that if it were going to make the GLOBALedit system full proof and not lose data. I’m sure that they’d be zipping that up.

MM: In the grand scheme of things, it’s a pretty trivial technical problem to solve. They should probably have an easy fix to that.

BG: Ok, good. Some further challenges for the having an integrated DAM with the Direct Channel is if there is an image we both used. Let’s say we picked up from their photo shoot, then we would have different image rights usage for that one image. Usage rights for the Direct Channel may be 6 months, and we may only buy it for 2 months. So now, what do we put in the metadata as the expiration date? Can the metadata track on two levels? Which one is it going to refer to when it expires an image? I don’t even think we know how to tackle that yet.

MM: There are a couple ways you can approach that. You can do it with the facilities of a DAM—to manage multi-class permissions. Or you can then say, “Look. Let’s have the DAM do what it’s really supposed to, which is manage metadata and the workflow.”

We’ll bring in a policy server such as the Adobe LiveCycle or other sorts of policy servers, and that will be the way by which we will be able to link an asset to a policy library or a policy server. Depending on who’s touching the asset, there will be a policy in place to then tell them exactly what they can or can’t do.

Again, while it may not necessarily be cheap, it’s a fairly straightforward, easy thing to do. Especially if you’re already using the XMP. Because XMP will have the ability to put embedded links in it. Specifically an embedded link back to a policy server.

So while conceptually it looms large on your horizon, from a technology perspective, it’s a fairly straightforward integration. It’s a “Do it now—get it done,” sort of thing.

BG: Fantastic. Up until now I have kept this project under the radar and didn’t have to invest a lot of money in developing the DAM, buying software, etc. I want to try to keep it that way for now so I will see if we can figure out something within GLOBALedit or come up with a new internal process between VICTORIA’S SECRET and Victoria’s Secret Direct.

If you say this policy server is quite expensive…

MM: You could rent it, as well. There are ways. The technology is called a “policy server.” There are lots of different ways to get it into your organization. Including going back to your organization Industrial Color, and saying, “Hey—I need a policy server. Go get one, and I’ll rent it from you.”

BG: Exactly. There’s a creative way. Thank you!

MM: Yes.

MM: I take it in the GLOBALedit system that you have today; it has some enabling services for workflow?

BG: Yes. The workflow starts from the very beginning – the photo shoot. We can do image capture at the photo shoot, move the selected images from the photo shoot to retouch vendors with comments attached, and move them back into DAM system into retouched folder, then also, flowing them back out to the end-users or the printers. It has a pretty comprehensive workflow capability.

MM: In that workflow specifically, does your system really support online review and approval of the asset? Or is the review and approval process kind of an overlay to the asset?

BG: The approval and select process is all done in the workflow within the DAM. You can select or kill and use a star rating for the images that are selected. Different designers and creative directors can go in and pick which ones they want to select and then they can be reviewed or approved by the Chief Creative. There is a way to track who selected the images or rated them and then who killed or approved them.

AS: BJ, you might want to talk about the evolution of your vision since the project kickoff, for the central library into how it’s evolved. I think that’s an important point. [NOTE: Andrew Salop joins this interview. As a consultant, he worked with BJ Gray in implementing the DAM at Victoria's Secret]

MM: That was really more of just a basic library function. Right?

BG: True. Very basic library function. My thought at that point was, “Once we get this library up, wouldn’t it be great that everybody can connect to it as cross-functional partners?”

Victoria’s Secret is broken up into different sub-brands. There’s a sub-brand called “Beauty,” and a sub-brand called “PINK.” Then we’ve got several cross-functional partners—a real estate team, another creative team that’s at the Limited Brands level. I was thinking, “Wow! Once I get this library done, I’ll be able to share this library, and everybody will see how useful it is. They can now have access to look themselves for images that Victoria’s Secret specifically—the store channel—had created.

While meeting with Industrial Color about GLOBALedit, I heard more about the GLOBALedit functionality, the workflow capabilities, and then the intent of what I wanted the system to do really evolved.

That’s when we got into creating an online tool for the designers to use for image selects and approval, where they could review the images, approve them or kill them. Having it web-based was a huge plus as many of our creative directors are out of the office, at photo shoots, working from home. Having easy access to review images saved time in getting the images in play to work on.

In addition, many, many requests come from the Victoria’s Secret enterprise for the same high-res images that are completed through retouching because it’s going to be deployed for multiple uses. For instance, each campaign our production team sends the images out to many different print vendors they work with so the same asset might go to 10 different vendors to be printed in a digital format or an offset format. I really wanted a tool where those images could just be moved in and out of so we didn’t have to ask or get charged by the retouchers each time we needed a download of final images. I wanted those final images to be ingested back into the DAM, and then pushed out from the DAM by us.

Then for the front end I wanted the workflow to be in place so that the photographers could easily upload their images from the photo shoots. This would make all the difference in the time it takes to edit and select the images. Because there are thousands of images taken at the photo shoot, editing down the images instantaneously or each night—on GLOBALedit—is just a lifesaver.

We’ve really increased our efficiency in time in getting projects done and images selected. We’re not in the dinosaur ages anymore of moving the images on a hard drive—having the art director upload them onto her screen—picking which ones she likes. It’s really being done instantaneously on GLOBALedit.

As we thought about putting all the images up, the art buyers started getting really nervous about, “Well, then everybody can download these images at any time. They might not have rights to download them. We may not have bought enough usage rights for those images or they are expired.” We needed to build in some sort of image rights approval workflow for all the images. In the XMP compliant metadata, we set the expiration date for that image. So the expiration date would determine if the user gets approval to download or needs to request access to the expired image. Part of the workflow is that the requests are generated in the DAM and sent out via email to the image rights managers who will approve or deny.

This was a big thing that we talked through. It took a long time, processing through how an image would flow through the system automatically to get approved—either via the art buyer or the library manager. This became part of the evolution of developing the DAM.

Which brings up another big thing to figure out: the Metadata Schema. We wanted to create a simple metadata schema that would make sense to the users. How are they going to want to search for images? What key words are they going to use in the search? Let’s make those words part of the metadata and enable the user to search using metadata. That was another evolution that came about. I wanted the metadata to be the working tool for finding the images.

I think that’s about it. Those were the main things that came about, as we started brainstorming. They really enhanced the system from a basic library and actually put a lot more exciting energy into the product.

MM: What would’ve been some of the cutting-edge technologies that you wanted to make sure this provider or vendor incorporated in their offering?

BG: One would be that they were using XMP. Building their system with XMP, so that it was open to connect with other systems.

MM: XMP meaning the Extensible Metadata Platform and an open standard championed by Adobe? That’s a way of capturing metadata and putting it into the actual file. So when the file or asset leaves the repository, the metadata travels with it.

BG: Correct. I am not a tech person but I also understand that if it’s built on XMP—and that if another system I have here is built on XMP, it’s an open interface for us to try to figure out how to link them together if they need to share information with each other, maybe link them by project number, or by file number.

AS: Thereby enhancing workflow connectivity by supplementing, or possibly even substituting system integration with file-based metadata interchange. [NOTE: Andrew Salop joins this interview. As a consultant, he worked with BJ Gray in implementing the DAM at Victoria's Secret]

MM: So we’re not just talking about being about to send a file—an asset—from one system to another. XMP also provided the basic architecture for two systems to share metadata and assets in some sort of collaborative or reciprocal process. What other technology did you want to have in terms of considering a state of the art platform?

BG: XMP encompasses part of what is needed for the metadata but the other part was a company that was developing flexibility with the metadata schema. Metadata drives what we are doing, drives the rules of how our system works based on detailed (loaded) search capabilities and image rights expiration. All the importance is in the metadata so we needed to be able to have lots of functionality when updating, changing or viewing the metadata.

The high-speed file transfer technology came about while I was working with the company. I did not think of needing it up front but now I can’t imagine not having it. High Speed file transfer is a huge, huge plus.

MM: Tell us a little bit more about that.

BG: It’s developed by a vendor called Aspera and partner with the company that built our DAM which is Industrial Color. The DAM application is called GLOBALedit. Using Aspera allows the images to upload or download in minutes or seconds versus hours. Like using an FTP site, a big image from an FTP site could take a long time to pull down, and hold up someone’s computer. Aspera’s high-speed file transfer makes images down or upload super fast. It saves so much time on the vendor’s side when they pull massive amounts of images down for retouching or printing. It’s just incredible. An example would be 1 GB file downloads in about 7 seconds with a 20Mbps connection. So it’s really, really fast.

Then as you selected the finalists and went through more of a formal RFP process that entailed them taking data and mocking it up in their system…

TM: Yes. That’s when they quoted on the system, as well.

MM: So you had vendors quoting on how to automate your workflow, as opposed to simply how to install their code and then shoehorn existing current-state users to their system?

TM: Correct.

MM: As a function of having created the user manuals, did you then have the vendor basically rewrite or augment the manuals? Take us through that.

TM: Yes. We had additional meetings, after we chose the vendor. We had a meeting where they went through how they normally train. We said, “Well, that’s very nice. But here’s how we want you to train us.”

It was more focused, but just as intense. In other words, they had a certain number of days that they had allotted, to cover every feature. We said, “Well, we don’t want to cover every feature, because we’re never going to use these. So we want you to focus more intensely on these particular features here—based on the particular jobs that are out there.”

MM: You just introduced another little gem.

TM: Okay.

The 0.1 Percent Solution

MM: Typically, enterprise systems have 30,000 or 50,000 function points—where each function points represents basic unit of work of a software application. When organizations deploy enterprise systems, they may only activate 500 or 600 of these function points.

Moreover, a power user at any one point in the workflow or process may only use 80 to 100 of these function points. And, a typical user may only use 20 or 30 of function points.

Another way of saying that is that if you take the 500 to 700 function points, that’s less than one percent—actually, a tenth of one percent of the entire set of 50,000 function points of the application.

This disparity calls into question the inherent silliness of magic quadrants or waves from these various research firms. I mean who really cares about, “Completeness of vision” if user end up only using tenth of one percent of that so called complete vision.

And “Ability to execute” represents another bogus, hackneyed concept: If 49,000-plus function points remained unused, they represent more than just overhead or potential—unused function points just become sand in the gears of execution. Someone in the implementation and others in the maintenance process have to manage all this unused functionality. Argh!

So, Tom, by getting it right up front and in analog on-the-wall fashion, you and your team identified the needed 500 or so function points that would deliver economic value. You could then focus on the workflow and quality outputs instead of al the silliness of 49,000-plus unused function points.

MM: So with the mindset of having the best-of-class system for your particular organization, what led to the need or idea of, “We’ve got to do something different?”

TM: Well, luckily, when I was hired at Hubert, actually in the interview process, I mentioned to them that I’d been looking at database publishing solutions for my previous job, which was with a centralized prepress group for newspaper circulars.

As it turned out, that company decided not to go down the road of database publishing. But I had already researched many solutions that would help production efficiencies.

During my job interview with Hubert I mentioned my research of database publishing systems. That intrigued them. I believe that my research became one of the key reasons they hired me. Consequently, a couple of years later, they gave me the freedom to continue that research. That involved going to events like Seybold and Print and ACCM—looking into the providers of these types of automated database publishing solutions or content management systems and digital asset management, and coming up with a solution that was right for Hubert at that time.

When I came on board at Central Restaurant, it was very easy for me to jump back into research mode and take a look at all of the pieces. All of the different vendors who had been out there—many of whom were the same. That was reassuring. But also to take a look at some of the newer vendors out there, and to make a determination of whether or not those solutions might be a better fit for us.

MM: So, looking back, the idea of ‘investing yourself personally in research,’ and developing mental maps as well as thick folders of research, you were also really investing yourself in understanding the next technology wave in this case, the next generation of database publishing.

So, not only did you find it gratifying, but it became a differentiator in the job market, making your more attractive as a potential employee.

TM: Yes. And it’s ongoing, of course. Not only did it help me get the job at Hubert, but also Hubert then allowed me to continue my research, and to become basically an expert in the field while at Hubert. That then allowed me to broaden my wings and move on after Hubert. Although I must say, Hubert was a great place to work.

Innovation Leader

MM: So, the mindset of having a best-of-class system must also entailed hiring the best individuals who understood what it means to be best of class, and who—in your case—are real innovation leaders. So Hubert, had already invested in the idea database publishing as the “next wave” of innovation and productivity—and hired your to execute that idea. What happens next?

TM: Well, I think the key is to develop a systematic way to gain buy-in, so that the company can move forward with an innovation.

At Hubert this started with writing a white paper that depicted what database publishing could do for Hubert. It was fairly in-depth on how it would affect the organization—and in some ways, the hierarchy of the organization.

It basically outlined, “Here are the steps that we have to do.” It’s not just implementation. Part of the success of database publishing involves bringing in the key vendors that are involved – to have them methodically work through a process with you, and to show the company that they understood what you were doing. That way, they could present to you, based on what you wanted out of the software.

Even before there were presentations being done there was a lot of dialogue outlining how those presentations should be done for Hubert.